►Plato’s “Phaedrus”: “The Allegory of the Chariot and The Tripartite Nature of the Soul”:
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In the dialogue “Phaedrus”, Plato presents the allegory of the chariot to explain the tripartite nature of the human soul or psyche.
The chariot is pulled by two winged horses, one mortal and the other immortal.
→The mortal, black horse is deformed and obstinate. Plato describes the horse as a “crooked lumbering animal, put together anyhow… of a dark color, with grey eyes and blood-red complexion; the mate of insolence and pride, shag-eared and deaf, hardly yielding to whip and spur.”
→The inmortal, white horse, on the other hand, is noble and game, “upright and cleanly made… his color is white, and his eyes dark; he is a lover of honor and modesty and temperance, and the follower of true glory; he needs no touch of the whip, but is guided by word and admonition only.”
→In the driver’s seat is the charioteer, tasked with reining in these disparate steeds, guiding and harnessing them to propel the vehicle with strength and efficiency. The charioteer’s destination is the ridge of heaven, beyond which he may behold the Forms, Truth and absolute Knowledge. These essences nourish the horses’ wings, keeping the chariot in flight.
The charioteer joins a procession of gods, led by Zeus, on this trip into the heavens.
The ride is turbulent. The white horse wishes to rise, but the dark horse attempts to pull the chariot back towards the earth. As the horses pull in opposing directions, and the charioteer attempts to get them into sync, his chariot bobs above the ridge of heaven .
If the charioteer is able to behold the Forms, he gets to go on another revolution around the heavens. But if he cannot successfully pilot the chariot, the horses’ wings wither from lack of nourishment, or break off when the horses collide and attack each other, or crash into the chariots of others.
When the chariot plummets to earth, the horses lose their wings, and the soul becomes embodied in human flesh. The degree to which the soul falls, and the “rank” of the mortal being it must then be embodied in is based on the amount of Truth it beheld while in the heavens.
The degree of the fall also determines how long it takes for the horses to regrow their wings and once again take flight. Basically, the more Truth the charioteer beheld on his journey, the shallower his fall, and the easier it is for him to get up and get going again.
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►The Tripartite Nature of the Soul and the Allegory of the Chariot
Plato conceives of the soul as having (at least) three parts:
- A rational part (the part that loves truth and knowledge, which should rule over the other parts of the soul through the use of reason)→ The Charioteer represents man’s Reason
- A spirited part (which seeks glory, honor, recognition and victory) →The white horse represents man’s spirit (thymos:θύμος).
- An appetitive part (which desires food, drink, material wealth and sex) →The black horse represents man’s appetites.
Worth noting: In the dialogue “The Republic”, Plato states that justice will be that condition of the soul in which each of these three parts “does its own work,” and does not interfere in the workings of the other parts (Check out this post: “Plato’s “The Republic”: “On the Concept of Justice”).
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►Plato’s “Phaedrus”:
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►Slideshare: Plato’s “Phaedrus”: “The Allegory of the Chariot and The Tripartite Nature of the Soul”:
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►Links Post:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ancient-soul/#3.2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chariot_Allegory
http://outre-monde.com/2010/09/27/platos-metaphors-the-chariot-allegory/
http://www.english.hawaii.edu/criticalink/plato/guide6.html
http://www.john-uebersax.com/plato/plato3.htm
http://www.scandalon.co.uk/philosophy/plato_tripartite_soul.htm
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Shag-eared and hardly yielding when it is logical to do so.
Sounds like rock and roll.
So, things rarely change
Only hope is that the degree of fall is a shallow one…for the shallow ones?
A very witty comment…
I assume your last question is rhetorical, right? …
But I am still figuring out its answer, though.
Thanks a lot for dropping by to read and comment,
Best regards, Aquileana 😛
Excelente entrada que compila perspectivas renovadoras respecto al alma y su estructura Una vez más los clásicos se anticipan a los representantes de disciplinas humanísticas como Freud en el caso de la analogía del Carro Alado.
Saludos, Eva.
Muchas gracias por el comentario Eva.
Muy bien señaladas las correspondencias entre Platón y Freud… Muy pertinentes en cuanto a lo que atañe a la estructura psíquica (Consciente /Inconsciente)
Saludos, con afecto, Aquileana 😛
Niiice. I love the fact that there’s always something interesting to learn on your blog, Aqui! (which is not the case on mine ahahah but hey I do entertainment, that’s different 😀 just kidding)
Have a fantastic week! xx
Hi Cha…
Thanks honey for the beautiful comment…
I hope you are doing great and I wish you a nice week ahead !
By the way: I love your posts, you are so creative. Keep it up…
I will check out your updates very soon.
Hugs, Aquileana 😛
Absolutamente genial. Muy bueno. Te felicito.
Muchas gracias… Me alegro de que te haya gustado. Saludos, Aquileana 😛
I love this allegory of the chariot, I think my chariot flies with quite a bit of turbulence! Here in Egypt, when someone is particularly stupid, they are refered to by the others as a “Hamar” or donkey by english. I think this is the same idea as that unruly black horse Plato refers to!
Maybe it would be too esoteric for the masses, but this allegory sounds like it has all the ingredients for an excellent video game, what do you think? xoxo ;^)
Aisha..
What an interesting parallelism you have established here… It might be quite similar indeed…
You made me think in a song by U2 called “Who ´s gonna ride your wild horses”?… Do you know it… Maybe the idea of wild horses could be also related to those black horses in Plato´s Allegory of the Chariot.
Best wishes & hugs to you, Aquileana 😉
PS: Here is the U2´song I was making reference to:
Oh, darn I’ll have to hunt for another link, it wont play on a tablet, says I must play it on a pc… I’ll try to find it on another youtubers page after I water my tomatoes! (Picked my first two red ones yesterday!) ♥♥♥ ;^)
Oh… okay it is not too releveant anyways, Aisha…
Good so roof gardening was worthwhile at the end. How great that you are having your tomatoes now..
Let me know how are you doing with Achilles’ shield ..
Best regards my friend, xo, Aquileana 🙂
Lol, I missed the U2 era, anyway, but on the other hand my father loves frank sinatra and I grew up hearing lots from him… I’ll have to find a youtube for the fairytale song you mentioned on my latest joyride post!
I managed to add a most of the static pages (with nothing actually on them yet!) And I almost finished making the graphic menu on the homepage interactive so you can click on the menu titles and it will link to the correct page. Lots of fun programming everything, do you play with html much?
About the rooftop garden, yes, it’s really exciting to see everything growing, I’ll be making a post with new pictures soon!
xoxoxo ♥♥♥ ;^)
Hi dear Aisha..
Good to know that you are trying to improve the site… have you ever considered to migrate it to Aisha’s Oasis domain. That would be a great idea, and you would be able to handle all the contents in the same blog (in this case at wordpress).. Not sure if this is easy to do though. This is just a suggestion, you know..
I’ll stay tunned to check out your newest posts as regard to rooftop garden.
By the way that previous post on this same topic was really neat!.
Keep it up. We’ll talk soon again, best wishes xo Aquileana 🙂
Hi Aquileana, thanks so much for your friendship and nice comments of support, you really make me smile! ♥♥♥
I am trying right now to move my achilles shield site to wordpress, you can see my progress at
http://achillesshieldblog.wordpress.com
I got the graphic menu on the homepage working last night! But it’s slow work, I have so many other things I must divide my time between… guess you know how that is! ♥♥♥ ;^)
Dera Aisha; ❤
The website layout is outstanding. I mean it it looks great. I am already following Achilles´ shield and will be catching up with your posts soon…
I really can´t wait to get a more in depth approach so I´ll be there ASAP.
I wonder if there is a comment section available below each post..
At first sight I din´t find it. If not being the case, wet me know where to comment in the near future when I visit you…
It is my real pleasure to be your wordpress buddy. As I see it, our feedback is enriching and highly positive. I am truly grateful that I have met you when I came across your blog…
Many hugs for your day,
Aquileana 😛
Dearest Aquileana, I feel exactly the same about you, too! It’s a great pleasure to know you!
Lol, I didnt make any posts yet, I’m so slow, and I feel I need to get all the static pages in place before posting, since I will want to make links on the relevant pages out to the posts. So happy you are following me there, and really interested in any feedback from you, dear heart! ♥♥♥ ;^)
Excellent my dearest …
Will be in touch through our blogs then (the three of them)…
Keep it up with Achille´shield even when it is a though task it will be worthwhile are the end..
By the way, I tagged you at twitter as regard to a post (not mine) about a flower called Blue Egyptian Water…
I tell you so that way you look for it among the notifications..
Okay then, I send you big hugs Aisha; and wish you a groovy day, Aquileana 😛
Omg what a gorgeous flower! Thx for the link! I’ll definitely keep you in the loop as I get work done on Achilles Shield blog, have a beautiful night, sweetheart! ♥♥♥ ;^)
Therefore, after the moment, I cease to be.
Well argued… Thanks for dropping by, Aquileana 😛
Thanks @AishasOasis for sharing this post at Twitter, Aquileana 😛
Thanks @linneatanner for the shout-outs and for sharing this post at Twitter, Aquileana 🙂
It is interesting, the struggle between the white horses and the black horses. Mind and body, which they represent, are not always aligned – and that is where many of the dilemmas in life exist, in the space between the horses.
Well explained, AP. It’s not an easy concept to understand (as Plato is very in-depth) but you do articulate it well. Thank-you for bringing such an intelligent post here!
xo Chris
Exactly Christy… There is a sort of battle between the two horses and the chariot who symbolizes the rational part of the soul is in charge to mediate between the appetites. At the the inner issue which is resolved due to the powers of balance and harmony …
Thanks a lot for taking time to read in depth and comment here Chris,
best wishes and many hugs, Aquileana 😛
I am always happy to support you, AP. Your writing is wonderful and you are teaching many people with your posts. Hugs to you too and have a wonderful evening!
Thanks Christy ♥
Your words here mean a lot to me…
Much love & many hugs, Aquileana 😛
Thanks @christybis for sharing this post at Twitter,
Aquileana 😛
Great beat !. Keep it up.
I would like to know how can I subscribe to your website.
Thanks for dropping by Brandon…
You can subscribe to the blog via email (Just check out the widgets on the right sidebar and you will find it).
Cheers, Aquileana 🙂
Aquileana, I appreciate how clearly you explained the battle that goes on for the driver/soul to steer in the best direction.We are constantly obeying one horse or the other and we reap or suffer according to which horse we’ve let rule. I like the analogy you’ve shared with us.
Blessings ~ Wendy ❀
Hi Wendy!,
I am really glad to know that you liked the analogy particularly because you are a great poet and I do believe it might be perfectly applied to our inner battles and struggles.
Poetry is a way to sublimate our passions, isn´t it?
What we feel vs what we think…
Which horse should we obey at the end?…
Best wishes and thanks for dropping by to read and comment,
Aquileana 🙂
Another interesting read, Aquileana. 🙂
Thanks Muscleheaded friend.
I much appreciated your words.
Best wishes, Aquileana 🙂
Thanks @Maxima003 for sharing this post at Twitter,
Aquileana 😉
https://twitter.com/Maxima003/status/455928787218075648
Another worthy academic evaluation. The trinity – what a godly coincidence 🙂 – is straightforward but extraneous influences are also in play. It does not matter how well the driver harmonises the horses if he cannot see the Forms. Due to this imponderable there may be a different outcome for every trip (reinforcing the individualistic nature of everyone’s soul?) #JustSayin’
This scenario would make a perfect electronic video game – the average twelve year old would make short work of getting the beasts in sync while optimizing the effect of the enemy forms to navigate perfect landings on the target every time. Thank you for this latest intrigue Aq.
Mike,
Thanks for yor great comment , You are right about the pagan trinity here.
Looking forward, probably Freud himself would pick it out when he mentioned the existence of three structures in our psike … Meaning the unconscious (black horse), the preconscious (white horse) and the Conscious (the chariot)
I agree with you when you said that probably there may be a different outcome for evry trip… (As to that I will also emphasize that the horses and chariots are not the same either.
They differ according to the person, I assume
The last mention about the video game is eloquent and suggestive …
My very best wishes for you, and thanks for dropping by !:
Aquileana 🙂
Thanks @MikeMcGuire_ for sharing this post at Twitter,
Aquileana 😉
Curiosa y reveladora la aplicación de los colores.
Me refiero a los de los caballos
Claro… Y evidentemente coincido con vos Josep. Muchas gracias por comentar y compartir el post en Twitter
Un abrazo, Aquileana 😛
Gracias @JosepGarcife por compartir este post en Twitter,
Aquileana 🙂
Gracias @MinaPili por compartir este post en Twitter,
Aquileana 😛
Una vez más sucumbo ante la claridad de la explicación. [Es una de esas entradas que se releen y disfrutan cada vez]
Hola Verónica.
Mil gracias por comentar . Me alegro mucho de que te haya gustado el post y resultado accesible. Eso es lo que procuro cuando opto por un tema filosófico
Un abrazo, Aquileana 😛
Fine post as usual and very well written. The topic is also particularly fascinating: the eternal battle in man’s soul. Thanks for sharing.
Stefy. 😉
Hi Stefy,
I am glad that you found this post interesting.
Thanks for your kind words.
Your comment is much appreciated, as per usual.
Best wishes, Aquileana 😛
It’s interesting to explore why we have such trouble uniting the body and mind. I wonder if we saw them as extensions of each other instead of separate entities–if that might make it easier?
Hello Kourt…
Yes, I understand your point of view…
Maybe that platonic classical distinction between mind and body has been emphasized with the advent of Christianity, when the pleasures of the flesh have been considered sinful, being then the chariot (mind) in charge of controlling the basic physical instincts.
Best wishes & hugs,
Aquileana 😛
Thanks for becoming a subscriber. Enjoy your blogging journey.
You are very welcome, thanks for dropping by to comment here …
Have a great day, Aquileana 😛
It describes life to a T,it is one big battle to keep things balanced enough to reach your goals.love this one Aquileana,xx Rachel
Rachel (& Speedy)..
Great to read your words.
You have caught the essence of this post. It has to be with balance of mind and body (chariot and horses) at the end.. right?.
Best wishes and hugs, Aquileana 🙂
A wonderful post! thank you.
Thanks Hearafire forp dropping by to comment .. All the very best for you, Aquileana 😛
thank you Aquileana, 🙂
Similar to what is believed of our afterlife. How decent one has been in this life shall determine heaven or hell? Love dissecting your analogies dear Aq. xo
Hello dear DG.
Thanks a lot for dropping by to read and comment.
Somehow yes I do think that Plato´s tripartite structure of the soul was meant to describe an overall eventual situation after death too. Therefore, If the horses were too wild and the chariot unable to guide their way well then probably the consequences would not be the best ones…
Many hugs, Aquileana 😛
Good to see we are on the ‘same page’ :). I enjoy the mystery behind the meanings. xo
Great… You are very intuitive and clever so no surprises over here. Thanks DG !!.
Best wishes, Aquileana 🙂
Thank you dear Aqui! 🙂
Thanks @pokercubster for sharing this post at Twitter,
Aquileana 🙂
Very interesting blog and thanks for your visit
Thanks for dropping by to comment and it was my pleasure to stop by your blog.
Best regards, Aquileana 😛
Aquileana, I have gone back to Egyptian mythology after so many years of not reading anything, the Blue Water Lily brought me to it and Nefertem.
In relation to this post on “The Allegory of the Chariot and The Tripartite Nature of the Soul”, I’m quoting: “According to Jung, the shadow, in being instinctive and irrational, is prone to psychological projection, in which a perceived personal inferiority is recognised as a perceived moral deficiency in someone else. Jung writes that if these projections remain hidden,
“The projection-making factor (the Shadow archetype) then has a free hand and can realize its object–if it has one–or bring about some other situation characteristic of its power.” These projections insulate and harm individuals by acting as a constantly thickening veil of illusion between the ego and the real world.
From one perspective, ‘the shadow…is roughly equivalent to the whole of the Freudian unconscious’; and Jung himself asserted that ‘the result of the Freudian method of elucidation is a minute elaboration of man’s shadow-side unexampled in any previous age’.
Jung also believed that “in spite of its function as a reservoir for human darkness—or perhaps because of this—the shadow is the seat of creativity.”;so that for some, it may be, ‘the dark side of his being, his sinister shadow…represents the true spirit of life as against the arid scholar’.”-Wikipedia
It’s interesting to see how the existentialists then put the “spirited part” (white horse) aside, and concentrated on the ‘rational’ (God is dead-Nietzche) and then in modern psychology the ‘spirited part’ is ignored once again with the ‘shadow’ (Jung) and ‘unconscious’ (Freud). For Freud the soul was the ‘superego’. The ‘id’ the body.
“The super-ego [white horse] works in contradiction to the id [dark horse]. The super-ego strives to act in a socially appropriate manner, whereas the id just wants instant self-gratification. The super-ego controls our sense of right and wrong and guilt. It helps us fit into society by getting us to act in socially acceptable ways. The super-ego’s demands often oppose the id’s, so the ego sometimes has a hard time in reconciling the two”- Wikipedia
The trend to emphasise the ‘rational’ has driven many to seek, once again, ‘spiritual’ refuge in eastern philosophies such as Buddhism, because the ‘rational’ took over in the western world, capitalism and emphasis on material goods. And according to Buddhist philosophy, the ‘ego’, or ‘self’ does not exist, it is constantly in FLUX. So who am I? I am only the moment, the present.
Hi María ..
Thanks a lot for the excerpts on Jung´s perspectives about the human soul /psique…
I found that there are clear parallelisms between the ideas of Super-Ego (White horse) and that we can also tied the analogy of the chariot with Jung´s Shadow archetype.
Your insights are really witty and I do appreciate your in depth reading here…
A real pleasure to read your comment. Thank you very much.
Best wishes, Aquileana 😛
Thanks. I love it when Jung says “in spite of its function as a reservoir for human darkness—or perhaps because of this—the shadow is the seat of creativity.” and “; so that for some, it may be, ‘the dark side of his being, his sinister shadow…represents the true spirit of life as against the arid scholar”.
I still have to admit having some difficulty assimilating Jung’s archetypes and ‘collective unconscious’ theory. Perhaps it’s this ‘collective unconscious’ what keeps this human rider ‘on his chariot’, most of the time, anyway?
Hi María;
Your insights made me think about the idea of shadow as it appears in literature for instance in Wilde’s “Portrait of Dorian Gray” or in Stevenson´s “Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde”… Jung’s notions of archetypes and ‘collective unconscious’ might sounds harder to understand than they actually are …
Archetypes are prototype. In jung´s work they are assimilated to common symbol which appear mainly in myths of different cultures
(As to the etymology of the word: The root words are archein, which means “original or old”; and typos, which means “pattern, model or type”).
As to collective unconscious they are linked to the idea of archetypes. Jung chose this concept to explain why archetypes remain the same, universally unchangeable no matter the surroundings. If the same myths and images tend to persist it is because they might be collectively-inherited, as an universally present in individual psyches,
When you asked: “Perhaps it’s this ‘collective unconscious’ what keeps this human rider ‘on his chariot’, most of the time, anyway?”
I would agree, maybe it is due to the ´collective unconscious’ as the of emphasizing Reason´s supremacy is a general trend in many cultures, accepted as a rational hegemonic domain over bodily appetites.
Best wishes and thanks a lot for your clever readings,
Aquileana 😛
Thanks for that. Precisely because of the ‘collective unconscious’ as being ‘collectively-inherited’ is what caused misunderstanding. It didn’t have scientific validity. He chose this concept to explain his archetypes, but a ‘collective unconscious’ could not be proven in a scientific manner, as opposed to Freud’s ‘personal unconscious’, which did prove to have scientific validity through the years. This is why Freud is the father of psychoanalysis, but Jung became the founder of modern psychology, a field that began to branch out even more, as opposed to Freud’s, which remained in the medical field for years.
Hello María,
I agree with you as regard to the main differences between Jung and Freud… The individual conscious has been proven to “exist”, even though not in a factical way… Freud knew how to dive in the Inter depths of the human psique and his theory still makes sense nowadays…
Happy Easter to you and regards, Aquileana 🙂
Your posts are reactivating memories of some of the stuff I read in a philosophy class a long time ago. Now I find myself wishing I had kept the textbook. Aside from my shadowy recollection of this one, your post does bring to mind the Charioteer statue I saw in Delphi.
Hello Jeri
Knowledge implies recollection and remembrance, well said (Plato will be nodding his head here).
Thanks for dropping by and for telling me about that Charioteer statue you have once seen… I guess it must be an archetypal symbol, very near akin to Plato´s analogy in meaning
Best wishes, Aquileana 😛
Thanks @JeriWB for sharing this post at Twitter,
Aquileana 🙂
https://twitter.com/JeriWB/status/456655209096163329
Another marvellous post! Thank you so much.
Aquileana, you wouldn’t believe it, but I actually had a bit of time, clicked on the Phaedrus image and started to read the dialogue and was pleasantly surprised at how much I enjoyed it. I was sitting near the plane-tree listening in to the conversation between Socrates and Phaedrus. Although Socrates appreciated nature, he was more interested in knowing himself; a long time before Freud, he analysed the human soul, torn between fleshly desires (the black horse) and spiritual calls to attain perfection (the white horse) with reason, the Charioteer, keeping them in balance.
From experience I know that reason, however, is sometimes powerless when ‘appetites’ are too strong, and that is when we get into trouble and must suffer the consequences.
I like this metaphor by Kahlil Gibran:
Your reason and your passion are the rudder and the sails of your seafaring soul.
Cheers 🙂 Irina
Thanks @kookadim for sharing this post at Twitter, Aquileana 😉
Irina,
Hi dear friend. Thanks a lot for your comment .
You have highlighted a truly important point which is the importance of Plato´s philosophy, particularly in further development of Psychology.
Schopenhauer and Nietzche were relevant intermediaries in this osmosis process of exchanges..
I agree with you as regard to the fact that sometimes appetites may be stonger than reason.. The charioteer has a difficult task, doesn´t he?.
Kahlil Gibran´s quote is wonderful and it perfectly applies here !.. I hope my seafaring soul never stop sailing.
Best wishes, many hugs and Happy Easter, Aquileana 🙂
Siempre se aprende algo nuevo en tu espacio maravilloso.
Besos, abrazos y feliz fin de semana.
Muchísimas gracias por el comentario, querida Rotze. Felices pascuas, que la pases excelente.
Abrazos, Aquileana 😛
Gracias @rotzemardini por compartir este post en Twitter,
Aquileana 🙂
Gracias@LosSentidosVida por compartir este post en Twitter,
Aquileana 😛
https://twitter.com/LosSentidosVida/status/457444841492725761
The allegories Plato comes up with are simply amazing. Love the chariot one. 🙂
Thanks Kev… I agree with your statement above.
Happy Easter, best regards, Aquileana 🙂
Likewise. 🙂
Easter is a promise of joy and renewal
May this one before us
Marks a new beginning
Of happiness, love and prosperity.
Wishing you all a Happy Easter
Thank you dear Stefan for the beautiful message..
I wish you a Happy Easter too, my friend…
Best regards, Aquileana 😛
Happy Easter sweet friend ❤
Thank you very much and likewise, dear Ralph.
Hugs, Aquileana 🙂
[…] « Plato’s “Phaedrus”: “The Allegory of the Chariot and The Tripartite Nature of the&nb… […]
A soul having 3 parts reminds me of Mind Body Spirit.. 🙂 I hope Easter was enjoyable Aquileana.. 🙂 xxx
Well pointed out… I agree with that analogy.
Easter Sunday over here was beautiful, I hope yours was great too.
Best wishes & Hugs,
Aquileana 🙂
It was very nice we had friends over.. which was very nice.. 🙂
Wonderful, dear Sue… Spending time with family and friends is always a profitable experience…
Hugs, Aquileana 🙂
Dear Aquileana,although my inbox is about to burst after leaving unanswered numerous e-mails,your posts stand out from the crowd … and it was a real challenge for me to make a start from your brilliant psyche-related post and slowly come back to the wonderful social nets and reconnect with my remarkable key friends.It’s really hard for me to catch up after my Easter Holidays…
Anyway,you have so aptly tackled and presented such a spiritual and philosophical topic through the Allegory and the strong metaphor and you do shed some light on the unfathomable depths of the human soul.The multidimensional human soul struggling to reach out to divine heights and being on continuing effort to rise beyond the heavens,beyond any mortal transgressions … Complex mechanisms in eternal collision trigger unconscious and instinctive impulses while processing to meet the divine and make the human psyche immortal …
I did enjoy the journey on your ” chariot ” with Eros and Thumos ( Thymos ) …
BTW, I so much like your Alter Ego selfie : Amalia Pedemonte …
All the very best,
Doda , ♡ (◠‿◠✿) ♡
Thanks @DGMARYOGA for sharing this post at Twitter,
Aquileana 😀
Hello there Doda…
So nice to read you beautiful words. I am honored to have such a clever greek reader !… And my alter-ego says: “Thank you very much for the compliment!…
It is really interesting how Plato (through Socrates) used metaphors, allegories and analogies to explain abstract concepts and to probe his arguments.
I believe that somehow he went further the rational side of philoosphy, adding some mystic and mythological seasoning…
As to your insights I believe that the “The multidimensional human sou” would never be so, I mean mind and body are a unity even when they have different likes and desires. The complex mechanisms which are as you laos said in eternal collision would ultimately reach a break-even… Sophrosyne (self-control) which was the opposite of hubris (excess) was the perfect aim to reach.
Best wishes and hugs, Aquileana 😀
Yes,he went beyond the rational side of philosophy,but can you easily discern the rational norms and their branches ? Do we individually define the notion of rationality ? If yes,then the mystic and the mythological elements he used to pep his attitudes,might be explicit to others … Besides,mythology is not static,it becomes history when there is future evidence … Oh,dear Aquileana,I am trapped in a meander of thoughts,I have to find my way to standard reason …
Hope the journey of your soul is short and soon you find the balance between sophrosyne and arrogance ( hybris ) … The paths you follow,although too young, will reliably lead to your goal …
Best,
Doda ❤
“Mythology is not static,it becomes history when there is future evidence” …
Excellent thought, Doda. I think Mythology is one of the best tools to get to a deep understanding of the human psyche, both individually considered and in the cultural environment.
I do believe that the concept of Reason is both universal and individual. There are main shapes in the process of thinking but culture and time define multiple versions and approachs.
As to you last wish I also hope that teh jouney of your soul is a short one. I also think it will be that way..
Hugs to you … Aquileana 😀
The question of whether we can individually define “the notion of rationality” is so interesting, or the question of whether “can you easily discern the rational norms and their branches?” is also very challenging. Through the journey of life, at least for me, it feels as if I’m totally redefining what ‘rational norms’ are on a daily basis. As we age and from my own experience as a clinician, having worked with dementia and other conditions which affect mental faculties, ‘rational norms’ are simply a skeleton of society; they are there (regardless their source, whether political, philosophical, or religious) to attempt to ‘control’ individuals as far as they can, and install some sort of ‘framework’. Apart from this ‘public’ coexistence lies some ‘ego’ which ultimately questions rationality, but as it ages, the physical world no longer entices it as much as it demands its ageing body on a daily basis. It doesn’t mean the ego has fled. It just means the forces of gravity are drawing one closer to what….’destiny’?
Hello María
I hope you are doing very well.
Now to the comment…
The second part of it may be related with a personal experience. Life shows us the way and provide us some general ideas of ho we should behave, but at the end we pick up our own path, somehow we do, albeit sometimes our options may be limited by surrounding circumstances.
What we call to be rational is mainly a relative interpretation of what we believe to be normal.
Then the social scope has its own straitened rules and definitions.
Your thoughts above as regard to the notion of rationality made me think in Foucault´s concept of Power and technologies of power which of course enable societies to set up a commom foreground of rules of social pattern of standard behaviours.
I have many posts on these topics, woefully all of them in spanish.
But I bet that maybe you can a general idea using the translator.
I will send you just one, related to the idea of Reason and Normality.
>Michel Foucault: “Historia de la Locura en la Época Clásica”.-
>Michel Foucault: “Madness and Civilization: A History of Insanity in the Age of Reason”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madness_and_Civilization
Best wishes and thank you for the comment,
Aquileana 😀
“What we call to be rational is mainly a relative interpretation of what we believe to be normal.”, I agree, as even demented people are ‘rational’ in their own world, even when it doesn’t fit society’s expectations and they must be locked up. I’m thinking more in terms of what happens in the physical world, when it is our body that takes over, maybe mortality. Then I also thought of the Absurd. When you say “.., but at the end we pick up our own path, somehow we do, albeit sometimes our options may be limited by surrounding circumstances.”, I think of Camus with the Absurd, and I even laugh at times. “Camus presents the reader with dualisms such as happiness and sadness, dark and light, life and death, etc. He emphasizes the fact that happiness is fleeting and that the human condition is one of mortality; for Camus, this is cause for a greater appreciation for life and happiness.”
“Camus emphasizes the fact that happiness is fleeting and that the human condition is one of mortality; for Camus, this is cause for a greater appreciation for life and happiness.”
Beautiful way of seeing it… As a matter of fact I believe that Camus´interpretation goes beyond the mere negativity which represents the absurd.
Playing a sort of dialect game he moves forward the antithesis and towards the synthesis, surpassing the negative phase
Thanks for sharing Camus´ thoughts here. Truly Rremarkable…
Best wishes,
Aquileana 😀
Or was it Ananke, along with Chronos? I wonder if they knew Chaos, Gaia and Aether, among others, were watching?
I have some doubts as to who came first. The ‘primordial deities’: Chaos, Gaia, Tartarus, and Eros? Or were Chronos and Ananke already in the universe, way before these ‘primordial deities?
Hi María,
According to the research I have done the Greek primordial deities preceded the Titans (the descendants of Gaia and Uranus).
I believe that Hesiod´s “Theogony” provide us an accurate genealogy.
According to Hesiod’s “Theogony”, the primordial deities were (700 BC):
Chaos (Void, Air, arche) (sometimes poetically female)
Erebus (Darkness) (male) and Nyx (Night) (female)
Aether (Light) (male) and Hemera (Day) (female)
Gaia (Earth) (female)
Uranus (Heaven) (male)
The Ourea (Mountains) (male)
Pontus (Sea) (male)
Tartarus (Underworld) (male)
Eros (Procreation) (male)
At: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_primordial_deities
Of course the sources differ and there are other genealogy structures too…
Best wishes and hugs,
Aquileana 😀
[…] Aesop, Fables 517 (At: Plato’s “Phaedrus” […]
Querida amiga: una entrada de mucho aliento… Llega (lo digo en serio) para entender hoy de nosotros yde nuestra materia importante espiritual. Quizá hasta de la vía que desenvolvemos en nuestro vivir. Yo la encuentro llena de baches y demás… ¡qué trabajitos llevo!
Aquileana, un aplauso a tu trabajo; espero condescendencia a mi comentario tocado de pizca de humor (tampoco tanto).
Un grande abrazo amistoso (que no te importe el retraso en leerte). Mantente excelente. Al
Muchas gracias por el comentario, Al.
Me alegro de que te haya resultado interesante el tema.
Es un gusto como siempre tenerte de visita.
Un abrazo grande y buena semana para vos,
Aquileana 😀
Reblogged this on eolo and commented:
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Aquileana, what pleasure its to read your account, I always tell people, the first book about Philosophy you must read it’s Plato’s Dialogues, I read him when still a teenager, and kept by my side since, and occasionally pick it up.
And tell whoever may want my advice: Read it!
A lot of people feel intimidated about reading him, not knowing his language its very clear, and easy to understand, unlike our contemporary philosophers, who seem to delight in complicated terminology, and obtuse language, and reasoning.
After Plato, Philosophy has become merely window dressing, according to the fashion of the day.
Thank you Aquiliana. 🙂
Thank you very much for dropping by and for the comment. I definitely agree with you: Plato equals the origins of Western Culture… alongside Aristotle. There is so much to learn from Plato’s dialogues. So, yes: one should read them, at least some of his most important dialogues!. Sending love and best wishes 😘👍
Thank you, likewise, Aquiliana. 🙂